Merely ‘Ellen’s’ title remains a puzzle, truth be told there appears to be zero-one to called Ellen otherwise Helen, but perhaps an enthusiastic ‘Eleanor’ for the Joanna’s top (Eleanor regarding Aquitaine, mom off Joanna’s dad King John)
Hi, men. It is truly fascinating; everything i would not features given to get access to this short article twenty-5 years in the past while i try comparing and composing Here Feel Dragons!
The key purpose of so it exercise is to try, of the a look at genealogist’s feedback about them and by consulting some recognized brand new present, to determine who was the mother from Gwladus Ddu ferch Llywelyn. Is she Joanna, spouse away from Llywelyn ab Iorwerth (Joan Plantagenet: Produced circa.1188, passed away. February 1237) or was she Tangwystl ferch Llyarch off Rhos, mistress out-of Llywelyn, created circa. 1168, passed away??
I will follow this which have a holiday analysis towards you can easily existence of good ded Susanna, given over to Queen Henry 111 since the a hostage from inside the 1228 with her infant custody getting provided so you can Sir Nicholas Verdun along with his spouse Clementia.
Brand new views of your own Genealogists which i possess studied are only you to definitely, views, and disagree greatly. Zero particular research is obtainable regardless, but have to state that most hold to have Gwladus is the new child out-of Joanna. This is especially true of the genealogists of the descendants away from the brand new De Braose loved ones, nonetheless ily getting tied to the Welsh and you will English royal properties!
The following list away from Llywelyn’s numerous genuine and you will illegitimate college students appears become fundamentally recognized of the all the genealogists that i features examined apart from distinctions more than whether or not no. 9 most stayed. The schedules from delivery given below are debated by specific:
- Gruffudd ap Llywelyn, created circa.1199, died 1244
- Gwladys Ddu ferch Llywelyn, created circa.1206, died 1251
- Ellen (Helen, Elen) ferch Llywelyn, created circa 1206? died circa 1253,
- Margred (Margaret) ferch Llywelyn, produced circa 1208? passed away circa 1263,
- Dafydd ap Llywelyn, Prince off Wales, born circa 1208 (1211?) (doubts about it date, pick later), died twenty five February 1246,
- Gwenllian ferch Llywelyn, created circa 1209 died 1281.
- Angharad ferch Llywelyn, created circa 1210, died 1257
- Tegwared ap Llywelyn – born circa 1210, you’ll be able to twin to help you Angharad?
- ‘Helen’, otherwise ‘Susanna’, created circa 1214? Passed away 1259?
Discover much argument over the identity of the mothers out of this type of students. Discover general contract that simply specific people regarding Llywelyn’s elizabeth Prince out of Wales and you may Ellen (Helen) which hitched (1) John the fresh new Scot, son of one’s earl from Chester and (2) Robert de Quincy. Even if thoughts try separated along the parents off Gwladus, Gwenllian, Margred and you can Susanna, a lot of genealogists I’ve studied lean to the its mom being Joanna.
This is partly due to their supposed dates out-of delivery because better as their marriages to different marcher lords who, that supposes, could have desired in order to line Cupid.com mobiili up their houses to that particular of the neighbor, the fresh new Prince of North Wales and his wife, the latest queen off England’s child. It’s thought that these lords of the February would not have experienced really interest or political determination inside the marrying from their sons to the illegitimate daughters regarding good Welsh prince having an effective Welsh woman.
From what labels of them students, whether or not by the Joanna, Tangwystl otherwise others, they were all of the titled shortly after members of Llywelyn’s friends:
Ken, the audience is totally in your debt
Llywelyn’s mother try titled ‘ed ‘Susanna’ regarding Gwynedd. His paternal granny is actually called ‘Gwladus’. The parents off his grandma Susanna, was in fact ‘Gruffudd’ ap Cynan and you will ‘Angharad’ out-of Flint and you may both its brands received to Llywelyn’s people. It Susanna as well as got a brother titled ‘Gwenllian’, an equivalent identity due to the fact Llywelyn’s great grandmother.